After Thanksgiving

[thedeadlyhook]

Where did the time go? I didn't even get a chance to use any of the Thanksgiving icons I grabbed recently. (And I didn't get anywhere near enough turkey at the big dinner, whine, bitch, moan, whine, maybe I'll have to make my own, sigh...) But I did make a kickass fresh cranberry sauce, for which I may later post a recipe.

Winter seems to have finally arrived, after a long spell of summer-like weater - the air right now is crisp and cold, with that hard, clear feel you only get around this time of year, blue sky straight up into space. The kind of weather that makes you feel shivery and glad you have bulky coat to put on - brrrr. To really drive home the wintry feeling, Toys and I have been sick since Sunday - the three-year-old niece was just coming off a cold, so of course we both caught it - and are sniffling and snorking and trying to shake it off. Hot apple cider and super-spicy Chinese food to the rescue. So far, so good.

I missed at least one birthday over the holidays:
A Belated Very Happy Birthday to petzipellepingo!!

So much catching up to do. I may spam a bit today.

R.I.P. Dave Cockrum, X-Men Comic Artist
Dave Cockrum, the artist who created the visual appearances of the "New X-Men" - in other words, the characters we see in the movies today - back in the 1970s when the comic was revamped by Len Wein, died this last Saturday after a long bout of illness at the age of 63. Cockrum was, to say the least, an influential artist for the era: he created Wildfire for the Legion of Super Heroes, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird and Storm and the Starjammers for the X-Men - they all owe their looks to Big Dave. It's Cockrum we have to thank for that late-'70s-early-'80s trend of women in unitards with thigh-high boots and waist sashes (Phoenix, for the biggest example), and he was the artist working on The X-Men when I first started picking it up, back during the first Brood storyline. Yes, the Brood were a ripoff of Alien, but that was also the kind of cracking good story that got people addicted to the X-Men, and through it, I developed a real affection for Cockrum's art, its in-your-face straightforwardness. Cockrum was a bit like Jolly Jack Kirby in a lot of ways: the same way you can quickly identify a Kirby drawing not just for its energy, but for the uniqueness of personal vision, Cockrum's characters were clearly his, musuclar action men and women doing exciting stuff. Even when they stood around, they were larger than life. We'll miss you, Big Dave.

And I gotta say - I'm really displeased by the tone of the CNN story (a little crass, methinks, to lead off with a headline that makes the deceased out to be some kind of Underoos-wearing manchild, jeszus), but Marvel has a story up, and I was pleased to see that some kind of settlement will be making life a little easier for his family, given that he's never received any kind of royalties for his X-Men designs. (Not that isn't typical for comics work - it's just one of those sad facts of the industry, that more often that not, the people most responsible for creating that which brings us joy tend to be the least rewarded by it... monetarily, anyway.) The comics blogsverse is still gathering its reactions; this one also includes a link to a sad post by a personal friend) but here's a nice bio with some gallery links to his work on Blackhawk that really gives a feel for Cockrum's style.

The funniest thing I've seen so far this week:
Will Wheaton's short review of Open Water. I'm not sure what made me laugh more, the review itself (which is pretty damn funny) or its closing line, which is quite the mental picture. (Actually, that's not true - I know which made me laugh more.) I really admire Wil, I swear - he's such a honest-to-goodness GEEK in a way that makes me feel proud to be one of the tribe. And if you've never looked at his blog, his retro reminiscences of '80s nerd entertainments, such as video games and the hot!hot!hot! comics of the time, at least read his snarky reveiws of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes, complete with his own behind-the-scenes notes as the guy who played Wesley Crusher.

The funniest thing I saw the week before last (Thanksgiving being a lost weekend of sorts):
An entry over on entrenouse88's journal of good-natured snarky commentary on the subject of one of those unutterably tacky man-slut shirts that the Marsters likes to wear. Which, though, I have to note...

Now, while I wholeheartedly agree that JM's taste in clothing is atrocious (I don't really follow the actor stuff, but one can't help but notice from the occasional photo that the man seems to still have the clothes closet of a 17-year-old - albeit with better-than-usual body-confidence - who practices guitar licks in the family rec room), the mirth that was directed at his scanty little sample of chest hair in the thread provoked my awwwww, cute reaction instead, because that happens to be a trait he shares with my husband, Toys. And sue me, everything about Toys is cute. So JM gets a cute rating for his chest squiggles by association. : D

Branching out of my fanfic reading niche?
How weird! Lately, nearly everything I've read has been either Spander, such as cordelianne's It's Not and shadowscast's Sock Puppet (which is not only a cracking good post-series vision of the universe and characters, but had me bawling like a baby at the end - it's that intense, folks!), and the stories in the Buffy/Angel-centric I Will Remember You ficathon, run by chrisleeoctaves. I've been terrible on feedback for all of these, but I've definitely been reading and enjoying, and sort of wondering about the varying tones of post-series stories, depending on pairing.

So far, here's the general impression I'm getting: post-series Spuffy tends to be lighter, more adventurey with a lean toward the domestic; post-series Spander starts angsty and broken but then turns domestic; post-series Bangel is just plain angsty with a side order of sex; and post-series Spangel is... almost any of those, usually with angsty served up front, and a kind of brittle, distance-y tension. But the feel of dystopia in nearly all those futures - except for Spuffy, for some reason! - really intrigues me. Other thoughts and observations welcome - this one's really an interesting puzzle for me. Is this the real root, say, of the post-series drift into more slash (that's my impression, anyway, that slash has become more popular in relation to the het stuff), because the het couplings seemed to either be trending toward static happiness or equally static final separation? I'm wondering.

Comments

[shapinglight]

I never read B/A (though I've written it). Had no idea post-NFA B/A stories tended to the angsty, as opposed to Spuffy. How odd. I also don't know whether slash has become more popular post-series in relation to het. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that none of the slash pairings (with the exception of S/A) are canon and the writers have to think of more adventurous ways to bring the pair together? I really don't know.

Sad to hear about Dave Cockrum. I began reading the new X-Men just after he finished his first stint on the book and John Byrne took over. I collected all his issues, though and liked his style a lot. A very influential comics artist.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Pretty much all the B/A I've ever read, oddly enough, has been heavy on the angst. I'm positive there's load of fluff to be found out there, but somehow I've never run across it. Instead, I keep hitting stories that are such hardcore angst/sex combos that you'd swear you were reading S6 Spuffy, only without so much of the self-pity.

But it's such a whole different vibe, the angsty B/A. I'm still trying to put my finger on it. The best theory I've got so far is that B/A tends to be overshadowed by this air of fatalism - this thing is bigger than both of us, baby - that B/S typically doesn't have. It doesn't need to make sense, or even make the characters happy. It just IS. And it makes for some fascinating fic, even if it's not my personal kink.

I'm really sad about Dave. Too young! And that anecedote I read about him crying at the X-Men screening out of sheer emotion and happiness to see those characters on the big screen... like, damn. He'll be missed.

[shapinglight]

this thing is bigger than both of us, baby - that B/S typically doesn't have. It doesn't need to make sense, or even make the characters happy. It just IS. And it makes for some fascinating fic, even if it's not my personal kink.

Maybe it's something to do with that whole eternal love of champions thing? Not my cup of tea at all.

[rahirah]

I stumbled across a mention of that (that post-series B/A is preponderantly angsty) a few weeks ago, and I was rather surprised myself. I would have thought that Chosen gave B/Aers hope of an eventual reunion, and while Damage and TGIQ may have dampened that hope somewhat, I could certainly fanwank past all that if I wanted to.

[shapinglight]

Agreed, whereas Spuffy 'shippers actually have a lot less to cling to and would possibly have nothing at all if it weren't for TGiQ, where (according to Andrew) Buffy does at least tell both Angel and Spike she loves them.

Maybe that makes Spuffy 'shippers more determined to up the fluff quotient?

[shapinglight]

I'm fairly sure Buffy knows Spike isn't dead but leave that aside, I'm pretty sure Joss meant us to see she'd moved on from both vampires. Spike already knew (or suspected) it. He actually says to Angel he knew he never had a chance with her. I think by the end of TGiQ Angel has realised the same is true for him.

The eternal love thing is very much a B/A thing, as you say. I find it all a bit silly.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Being one of those people who felt that the Buffy/Spike story was only just beginning by the end of the series, I do like to cling to the idea that Buffy didn't know. Otherwise, you end up with this weird impression of Buffy that has to be wanked around or justified somehow, and I do resent that about TGiQ, an otherwise funny episode, that Buffy had to be turned into some weird enigma (and presented from an entirely male POV) in order to make that meta point, about moving on. The whole thing just gets too depressing. Ugh.

[shapinglight]

I enjoyed the episode but I agree it's very much a male POV and not about Buffy at all.

DeKnight & Goddard did tend to get hopelessly fanboyish and silly (tearing down iconic characters a speciality) when they wrote together, and I'm not that keen on the results.

However, I prefer TGiQ to WWF, if only becuase in TGiQ Angel is the one who ends up looking stupid whereas in WWF it's Spike (and in fact he looks especially stupid in everything Goddard wrote).

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

"Why Why Fight" I can tolerate in a strictly filler-ish sort of way - I agree completely it had the not-so-subtle agenda of a lot of AtS S5 episodes, of making Spike look dumb and Angel seem, y'know, serious and stuff in comparion, plus the ol' bait and switch on OMG Spike's so EVOL! (I remember rolling my eyes so hard at the Nazi uniform promo that they hurt.) It's less successful, I'd say, that "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco," which I loved, and showcased Angel's over-serious attitude without having to rely on using Spike as some kind of goofy counterexample.

But... yeah, TGiQ. I didn't get as much pleasure out of Angel being the butt of jokes as I would've liked, because the heart of that episode was just so mean. Hey, let's make fun of these two dolts for their big, tragic, hopeless love! Aren't they funny? That hurt. Especially because I also couldn't help but feel that I, as a viewer, was included in that joke - hey, let's make fun of these dolts in the audience who actually cared about all that big, tragic, hopelesss love stuff! Aren't they funny? Arrrrghh..

[shapinglight]

Yeah, there was definitely an element of cocking a snook at the audience in it, specifically aimed at B/A and S/B 'shippers. I guess I didn't mind too much simply because it was the first time that ME seemed to put both 'ships on an equal footing. Before that, I always felt that if push came to shove, the Spuffies would be kicked into a corner.

That's why I'm very glad indeed that SMG couldn't do the 100th episode of AtS (aside from the fact that leaving Cordy permanently in a coma would have been awful) because having that story, with Spike made to look especially stupid due to Lindsey and Eve's machinations, be the Spike/Buffy reunion episode would have been just awful.

As more of a Spangel 'shipper, I could cope with TGiQ, though I agree, there's a definite stompy-footedness on the writers' part to it.

[liliaeth]

I think I can come up with only one explination for it.

Most of the spuffy onscreen was painfull, deep, dark, with them hurting, and quite often, them (accidentally or not) hurting one another.

I think it's the fact that we saw so much of it onscreen, that makes a lot of spuffy authors inclined to write more positive stories, because after all the pain we already got, there's this need to finally see them happy.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

That's definitely true, and I relate to that myself - there's a certain natural rhythym, I think, to most stories, in that you want to see ups and downs. Too much of one or the other takes on a monotonous tone.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I think the proliferation of fluff is what has stopped me reading fic.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

My fic habits are way down compared to what they used to be, but somehow I seem to have avoided must of the fluff. I needs me something with teeth in it or at least a plot to keep me reading, so maybe I just don't register the real fluff when I see it. I just hit the back button.

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

I think the above poster is right about seeing so much tragic angst on screen with Spuffy that writers tend to try and be more positive about any post-NFA stories. I still prefer my Spuffy with a touch of melancholy or a touch of angst and if it's too fluffy I just pass on by.
I can't comment on B/A because I just don't read any of it. And not much of fan of Spangel or Spander either although I did read herself_nyc's Mating and enjoyed it. And, of course, that wasn't fluffy at all and neither is her new story.

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

And btw, thank you for the birthday wishes. I had a very nice day and I saved you some cake.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Oooh, cake! : )

[rahirah]

Post-series Spuffy can be angsty, but it's usually working-out-our-issues angst. I think that they've hurt each other so much already that it's not likely they'd get back together at all if either of them thought it was going to be nothing but a huge painfest.

Whereas with both B/A and S/A, the angst is usually the end, not the means. Angel is the world's biggest fatalist; he's not going to try to solve his relationship issues. He'll just suffer through them.

S/X seems to attract writers who have a kink for H/C.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

I don't know why this whole topic has suddenly struck me as interesting, but I guess it's at the heart of why some people would prefer one pairing over the other as well as their differing expectations of how the stories should come out. Probably that's also why it surprised me so much to see so much B/A angst - I would've though the happy ending was the obvious ultimate goal there, but... maybe not so much.

Whereas with both B/A and S/A, the angst is usually the end, not the means. Angel is the world's biggest fatalist; he's not going to try to solve his relationship issues. He'll just suffer through them.

Yeah, I think this is definitely key. Anything dealing with Angel seems to involve a little masochism on the side of the other person, be it Buffy or Spike or whoever, unless I'm reading it wrong.

S/X seems to attract writers who have a kink for H/C.

Boy-howdy, does it! Or buddy-buddy schmoop, I guess, although that shows up in every pairing.

[chrisleeoctaves.livejournal.com]

Well first off- I am really thrilled that you've been reading some stuff from the IWRY Fic Marathon. B/A just doesn't get the love they deserve. *hee* (okay, yeah, sure- I make up for it because I yammer on endlessly about them, but still)

There is a lot of angst in this year's marathon- I don't think there was as much as this last year. I am an optomistic B/A shipper. As a reader I would like to think that a la 'Chosen' Buffy and Angel will find each other somewhere down the road and have a chance to find some sort of happiness; as a writer, I prefer to write them as hurt(ing) and damaged and struggling. Because I am a masochist...and enjoy the emotional pain.

I can't speak for B/S writers or stories because while I do read them, I probably don't read enough to comment. But there are lots of happily-ever-after B/A stories out there. Often they are all human fics- which is not my cup of tea- and often they are 'we got it all wrong, we should be together, let's shag' fics.

I'm rambling, I'm sorry- it's early.

Frankly, I am not sure any Jossverse character has the potential to be happy in the long run. I want them to be. But I want them to be alive and whole, too...and let's face it- Joss did too good a job banging them up.

I am going away now because I clearly have nothing of value to say.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

I prefer to write them as hurt(ing) and damaged and struggling. Because I am a masochist...and enjoy the emotional pain.

I think this is why I've always enjoyed your B/A fics - you never scrimp on the difficulties of who and what they are. But I was surprised to see so many other writers on that same wavelength this year! Not to mention all the fics that dealt directly with Spike, even to the point of writing from his POV. Unexpected, that.

I can't speak for B/S writers or stories because while I do read them, I probably don't read enough to comment. But there are lots of happily-ever-after B/A stories out there. Often they are all human fics- which is not my cup of tea- and often they are 'we got it all wrong, we should be together, let's shag' fics.

Probably the same in both camps, then. : )

I am going away now because I clearly have nothing of value to say.

Oh, puh-lease, sweetie! This is exactly the sort of stuff I was looking for. And you always have something of value to say.

(I"m using my Angel icon just because I love his "grrr")

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I think that's the only reason I'm sometimes thrown by a more domestic vibe - to my eye, they'd made a lot of progress, but hadn't exactly reached the let's-settle-down-together point just yet. If anything, it felt to me like their story was just beginning. Although I know just from my own fic experience that working out all those outstanding issues is just plain hard, and I can't say I blame anyone for wanting to just... skip it. : )