thedeadlyhook: (Stabbity Stab by Mrmonkeybottoms)
thedeadlyhook ([personal profile] thedeadlyhook) wrote2007-05-20 10:34 am

Sunday Morning Brain Fever

This is a total crack theory I'm posting just for the hell of it, because yesterday Toys and I were discussing the Greatest Hits of Retcons and Fakeouts in the World of Comic Books (No, there's no list I can point to right now, but it's not impossible that we'll make one. Someday), and based on that discussion, here's the genius (insert snort here) idea we came up with about how the Buffy Season 8 Willow vs. Amy storyline ought to go.

For starters, let me state up front that I'm really skeptical about Warren's story. It sounds hugely implausible, based on what we see on screen, but it's coming from a dude who was tortured, and so does not have the most unbiased view, and who may also turn out to be some kind of trick. So let's set Warren aside for the moment and focus on the one thing he's really useful for here: providing a clue that this storyline is really about Willow, and Amy's vendetta against her.

So what do we know about Amy?

1. Well, up until the comic, where she's suddenly able to do all sorts of stuff (flying, summoning zombies) that seemed well beyond her in the TV show, she was a relatively small-time magician with certain specialized skills - illusions (as we see in "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered," in making a teacher believe she's turned in imaginary homework), turning herself and others into a rat ("Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" again, plus "Gingerbread"), a tendency to abuse power (getting magically high with Rack in "Wrecked", toying with the Bronze crowd in "Smashed," etc.), and casting a very effective hex on Willow in which she believed she was turning into Warren. So aside from the rat thing - a transformative spell - most of her powers concern manipulation of your perceptions. Now let's think about Amy's first appearance in "The Witch," and the very first spell she was a part of.

2. That's right! Body-switching! Her mother switched bodies with her because she wanted to be a teenager again, a cheerleader like she'd been back in the day. Only it doesn't work very well, because Amy is not who her mother was, and doesn't have that level of coordination. She's still a powerful witch, but can't get what she wants, even in Amy's body.

3. So, now it's Amy who's looking at Willow with jealously (see the dialogue in "The Killer in Me," and check out [livejournal.com profile] powerofthebook's Meta on Amy, for a good analysis of her character as seen in the show) and wants what Willow has - acceptance, a gang of friends, and a worshipping daughter-figure in the form of Dawn (not a stretch to think that Amy has some parental issues, because what Jossverse character doesn't?) - then why wouldn't Amy....

4. ...body-switch with Willow!! Yes! Think of it - discount Warren's story, because who cares, it might not even be him, and instead imagine Willow in "Chosen," all by herself in the principal's office in the aftermath of casting the Slayer spell. High as a kite on all that magic. Lying on the floor giggling. Amy busts in, and while Willow is helpless and drained, casts her spell. The Hellmouth falls in, Amy-in-Willow escapes on the schoolbus and Willow-in-Amy is buried in the Hellmouth, traumatized and loaded up with a high-quality hex that makes her believe that she is Amy.

Why do I love this theory? Because it fits what we know about Amy's powers from the show instead of reinventing her as a mega-powerful eyes-in-the-sky nemesis who can fight Dragon Ball Z-style with Willow and summon armies. Willow could probably do all that, but Amy? If Amy IS Willow, then the whole equation changes. Plus, she would be taking away from Willow all the things that Amy herself wants, just like her mother did to her, and discovering in the same way that it's not that easy. (Remember that Willow has been missing for awhile. Maybe she found the masquerade tougher than she thought? Plus, then we add an extra layer of angst and betrayal for Dawn, if the "Willow" she bonded with post-series turned out to be Amy.)

I warned you it was a crack theory. If this actually happens in the book... well, I don't know what I'd do. Get a job in comics! *g*

[identity profile] bogwitch.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I suppose Joss has a precedent with Buffy and Faith.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, definitely. And since he does seem to be on a Greatest Hits plot reprise kick anyway, I'd be sort of charmed if at least he came back to something that drew on the characters' histories instead of resetting them to something altogether different.

[identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
It's a great theory, but I fear it's too smart for Joss continuity is for wusses Whedon.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 06:36 pm (UTC)(link)
That's kind of why I both love it as a theory and consider it total crack. Given the whole "kiss of true love" resolution, and how weak that was, I think it's much more likely we're meant to take Warren's story at face value and just go with the idea that Amy is a super-witch now. Neither of which does much for me.
elisi: Edwin and Charles (Willow kills people by awmp)

[personal profile] elisi 2007-05-20 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Now I want someone to write that story! :)

(Although this whole Warren-Willow thing has given me a neat bunny I can incorporate into the fic I'm currently working on. So thank you Joss! *g*)

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
OMG, the ideas raised there are even scarier than anything I'd considered. Yikes. Everything since "The Gift" a Buffybot? It's been done in The Fantastic Four. Not even out of the realm of possibilities. (shudder) And I like the Buffybot!

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Bunnies are always a good thing.

It's belatedly occurred to me that this theory is supported a little by the title of the story arc, "The Long Way Home." Who's coming home? Willow, of course.

[identity profile] owenthurman.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. I, too, want to hear the rest of this story!

[identity profile] toysdream.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, at first I was just thinking of this as an example of the kind of cracktastic plot complications you'd get if the Buffy comic were operating under full-bore comic logic. But on reflection, it could actually help rationalize some of what we're seeing; not only would it explain how "Amy" got so powerful, but it also means that the resurrected Warren is really just a projection of Willow's guilt-ridden subconscious (as in "The Killer In Me") and the fact that he's now taking a knife to "Willow" while ranting about her infamous "bored now" line is a case of displaced self-hatred just like Faith's projection onto Buffy in "Who Are You," or Buffy's projection onto Spike in "Dead Things." Plus we also have an explanation for her long post-Chosen absence, the callous comments about Dawn and Kennedy, her taste in clothing, and anything else you like.

This isn't something that desperately needs explaining, mind you, but it would certainly make for a funny little complication. :-)

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 08:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I do love the idea of it being all about Willow's misplaced guilt. I did think "The Killer in Me" was a weak patch on that, a bit of a la-di-dah that had possibilities that weren't followed up on. I mean, if we take the events of TKIM at face value, then Amy's hex uncovered an internal fear of Willow's that she still had all that in her, not just to be a villain, but specifically a Warren-style villain who's weirdly misogynist and sadistic. If this story turned out to be about that - something rich and pyschological dealing with Willow's feelings about having committed murder - then I will happily eat at least some of my criticisms of the comics.

The Slayer army being a collection of anonymous redshirts, though - that's still on notice.

[identity profile] toysdream.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
(Reposting to fix another HTML error. No more coding for me today!)

If this story turned out to be about that - something rich and pyschological dealing with Willow's feelings about having committed murder - then I will happily eat at least some of my criticisms of the comics.

Well, the beauty of the rolling retcon is that even if the story isn't about that right now, it could always be retconned accordingly at a later point. :-)

The Slayer army being a collection of anonymous redshirts, though - that's still on notice.

Maybe this will come in handy, then. "Redshirt Slayer Army" fits on the board just fine.
rahirah: (Default)

[personal profile] rahirah 2007-05-20 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
That could actually be pretty awesome if it were handled correctly.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-20 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I can only wish and hope. So far the whole blast-from-the-past reuse of old villains hasn't done much for me - it'd be nice to think there was something thematic still in the waiting.
herself_nyc: (Default)

[personal profile] herself_nyc 2007-05-21 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
I think that is actually totally plausible as a theory!

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
When I typed this up, it was more of a "wouldn't it be cool if..." theory, but now I'm really starting to wonder. There are clues, especially in some of the dialogue, which really reads in that I'm-channeling-my-self-issues-onto-you way that JW used in both the Faith/Buffy bodyswitch and in the Buffy/Spike scene in "Dead Things." I feel like I'm onto something!
herself_nyc: (Beatles)

[personal profile] herself_nyc 2007-05-21 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
And it would take care of pretty much all the plausibility problems everyone's tearing their hair out over.

[identity profile] toysdream.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 10:21 pm (UTC)(link)
And it would take care of pretty much all the plausibility problems everyone's tearing their hair out over.

Not just that - it would mean that they were supposed to make us all go "WTF?!" and have a big conniption fit. Which isn't too farfetched given that Joss Whedon just used exactly the same trick in his last Astonishing X-Men plotline.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2007-05-21 08:24 am (UTC)(link)
I love your theory. I hope it turns out to be true.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Me too. It would, at the very least, give us something more meaty to chew on than what it looks like at the moment, a pretty basic throwdown between Good Witch and Bad Witch.

[identity profile] aycheb.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 10:03 am (UTC)(link)
[livejournal.com profile] elisi linked me here from our S8 discussion (http://owenthurman.livejournal.com/17168.html?thread=94480#t94480).

Amy body swapping is a neat idea but in this instance would ‘solve’ a problem (Amy’s new found powers) that’s already been addressed explicitly in the text twice.

In the first book she demands access to all the Not!Initiatve’s magical hardware (and in book three Willow notes that a couple of her spells reek of tech). Then at the end of the second book she has a little gloat about having had nothing to do while trapped underground but get stronger.

Even if you ignore those potential sources of her new found powers both ‘Willow’ and ‘Amy’ are flying and ordering zombies about during their battle, there’s no indication that either one is still at show!Amy level.

Having said all that I love the idea of Amy bodyswapping as the basis for a future storyline as it would dovetail beautifully with the emerging theme of public/private identity. Buffy’s being targeted specifically by the new Big Bad as that newly public figure "Buffy Summers the leader." Even her dreamspace is no longer her own with everyone from Amy to Ethan Rayne hacking into it and both of the next two storylines involve other slayers assuming identities, playing with public perception of them.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
In the first book she demands access to all the Not!Initiatve’s magical hardware (and in book three Willow notes that a couple of her spells reek of tech). Then at the end of the second book she has a little gloat about having had nothing to do while trapped underground but get stronger.

Yeah, that does work fine to explain her new powers, albeit a bit simply, in sort of a standard martial-arts-montage way, of her studying a lot so she can come back swinging for revenge. I just think it'd be cool if there was another layer to that - I especially like the significance Warren would take on in that scenario, as something Willow herself summoned up (while thinking she's Amy) as something to punish Willow with.

Buffy’s being targeted specifically by the new Big Bad as that newly public figure "Buffy Summers the leader."

Hmmm, interesting. I kind of saw it more as a personal thing, specifically because the current nemesis are known to her, but I guess the shadowy Army general would count as going after Buffy's public persona. I'm still not sure how Ethan fits in.

[identity profile] owenthurman.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Amy-in-Willow escapes on the schoolbus

You mean blue-eyed Amy Madison has been inside Willow's body ever since Chosen? It seems so implausible.

[identity profile] toysdream.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
AAAAAAAAH! Now you've really got me wondering!

[identity profile] owenthurman.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, and Amy secrety sharing the kiss of true lust with Buffy! It's so true, ever since The Witch.

[identity profile] toysdream.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Hookles and I just looked through the third issue of the comic again, and although it would seem overly hubristic to start making a list at this point... Well, let's just say that there are enough weird little details in that issue that, if our crackpot conspiracy theory somehow does pay off, we'll all be spending the next few weeks kicking ourselves for not figuring it out sooner. For example, that "stubbly crowd" comment.

[identity profile] thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com 2007-05-21 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
DUDE. I hadn't even thought of the blue-eyed thing. And it does seem really obvious, too - there are a lot of closeups on Willow's eyes, like we're meant to notice them. I have a hard time believing an editor would miss something like that on a book that they know is going to undergo hardcore scrutiny.

You're starting to convince me we're onto something here!