Well done! Your erudition impresses me no end. I think I need to read all this again to let it sink in properly, but on first read, this stuck out as my favourite piece:
``This, finally, is the inherent contradiction to the BtVS/AtS universe: given the knowledge that gods are real, that talismans and incantations meant to appeal to them are indeed completely effective, living a high-risk lifestyle which might seen them delivered up into whatever afterlife judgment awaits them at any moment... why is it that none of the characters seem to have much of an opinion about religious beliefs? There are virtually no debates anywhere in either series about belief systems or talk of spirituality. It's not until characters actually up and die that such topics even begin to come up... and even then, the level of discussion is left puzzlingly open.''
All I can say to that is Hallelujah, and Amen! And the answer is because the writers are good liberal atheists who don't know diddly-squat about the subject and therefore are on very shaky ground going anywhere near it. And therefore they have no idea what they really mean.
Sorry to be a bore and quote myself, but do you remember a very long discussion in fer1213's LJ a few months ago on this very subject. Got me hot under the collar and I seem to remember you in there making lots of comments too. But I said this and I still mean it:
``It really annoys me that Joss denies religion yet is extraordinarily happy to take on and use the potency of religion's concepts, symbols, emotional baggage and melodrama.
Yes, it is part of his cultural heritage. And of course anyone can wear a cross round their neck and be as god-less as all get out. But to create and write a show that is absolutely riddled with religious imagery -- it's everywhere -- and religious concepts, and then to deny those things have any meaning, while shamelessly using the spiritual power of those images and concepts, seems to me to be slightly hypocritical, or disingenuous. And a lot of religious imagery is metaphorical anyway. If, in Joss's mind, religion has no power or meaning, why would all the religious symbolism be even worth using in his show? It strikes me that if you are writing a show about such big moral/religious concepts as good and evil and redemption and atonement, that at least some spiritual awareness and thought should have gone into it. WHen the New York Times asked Joss what a soul meant, in terms of his shows, since it meant one thing for Angel, and yet SPike seemed to be trying to be good without one, Joss's reply was that the soul was whatever the plot needed it to be at any point in time. This may be fine for casual watchers of the show, but for those looking for any moral consistency in the treatment of characters, his fairly cavalier attitude on these matters speaks for itself.''
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Date: 2005-01-02 01:06 am (UTC)``This, finally, is the inherent contradiction to the BtVS/AtS universe: given the knowledge that gods are real, that talismans and incantations meant to appeal to them are indeed completely effective, living a high-risk lifestyle which might seen them delivered up into whatever afterlife judgment awaits them at any moment... why is it that none of the characters seem to have much of an opinion about religious beliefs? There are virtually no debates anywhere in either series about belief systems or talk of spirituality. It's not until characters actually up and die that such topics even begin to come up... and even then, the level of discussion is left puzzlingly open.''
All I can say to that is Hallelujah, and Amen! And the answer is because the writers are good liberal atheists who don't know diddly-squat about the subject and therefore are on very shaky ground going anywhere near it. And therefore they have no idea what they really mean.
Sorry to be a bore and quote myself, but do you remember a very long discussion in
``It really annoys me that Joss denies religion yet is extraordinarily happy to take on and use the potency of religion's concepts, symbols, emotional baggage and melodrama.
Yes, it is part of his cultural heritage. And of course anyone can wear a cross round their neck and be as god-less as all get out. But to create and write a show that is absolutely riddled with religious imagery -- it's everywhere -- and religious concepts, and then to deny those things have any meaning, while shamelessly using the spiritual power of those images and concepts, seems to me to be slightly hypocritical, or disingenuous. And a lot of religious imagery is metaphorical anyway. If, in Joss's mind, religion has no power or meaning, why would all the religious symbolism be even worth using in his show? It strikes me that if you are writing a show about such big moral/religious concepts as good and evil and redemption and atonement, that at least some spiritual awareness and thought should have gone into it. WHen the New York Times asked Joss what a soul meant, in terms of his shows, since it meant one thing for Angel, and yet SPike seemed to be trying to be good without one, Joss's reply was that the soul was whatever the plot needed it to be at any point in time. This may be fine for casual watchers of the show, but for those looking for any moral consistency in the treatment of characters, his fairly cavalier attitude on these matters speaks for itself.''