Okay, Scratch That
Sep. 13th, 2004 05:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thedeadlyhookWell, for a brief instant there I had an ending up for my Spuffyficathon piece. Hopefully no one read it, because I decided I hated it and it needs major revision. Apologies. (grumbles, goes back to drawing board.)
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-14 03:38 am (UTC)I was formulating a comment, too.
Okay, I understand absolutely the need to change one's mind about how a story goes. Can't properly recall specifics any more now, but I liked it best right up to the point where Spike drove away. The episodic nature of it after that seemed like a rush finish job, yeah. As though you had planned to cover several more episodes, but just wanted to get it over with.
So take your time to make it what you want. Only do it soon. *eg*
(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-14 05:59 pm (UTC)And yes, I'll hurry! : )
(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-14 08:05 am (UTC)If Buffy were male and Spike female, even with the Spike/female character being a soulless demon, the appalling nature of her behaviour would be even more apparent. I kept feeling, as I read your story, that your typical male wife or child basher could very well be having the same conflicted, fucked up, angry thoughts as Buffy was having here. It struck me too, that your story shows how a person (Buffy) can be so weighed down with baggage that they are not reacting in the here-and-now at all -- they are reacting to a whole set of prejudices/rigid frames of reference, that bear no relationship to how the other person is behaving right now. She just horrified me!
Sorry, Madame Hook, for not seeing the humour! But very good writing. That hit me in a very sensitive place. I'm trying to get thoughts together for a bit of an essay on ``the problem of Buffy'' -- I'm happy (well, not happy, but I can deal) with Buffy being dark -- but I can't deal with the show not dealing with her darkness properly. All her abusive behaviour in season 6, and her using behaviour in season 7 (mainly towards the creature who loved her beyond all else) was just sloughed off with one line to vamp!Holden -- ``I behaved like a monster''. But no apologies, no grappling with her issues. Still avoiding, repressing, using, right to the end. And I want to like her. I'm very stuck on that issue.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-14 06:24 pm (UTC)But without that canon - and like you, I've had severe problems coping with the version of Buffy's character we were left with - I wanted to try to get inside her head in a way that would help me understand her better. That was, I think, my main motive for wanting to do this story, and I think in going forward from here, I may have to project ahead a bit, deal with Buffy's and Spike's future, whose outcome we already know. And in that light, I thought this comment of yours was particulary interesting:
t struck me too, that your story shows how a person (Buffy) can be so weighed down with baggage that they are not reacting in the here-and-now at all -- they are reacting to a whole set of prejudices/rigid frames of reference, that bear no relationship to how the other person is behaving right now.
This was something I was really trying to get to - that both of them are behaving in ways that compensate for what they think the other wants. It's obvious on Spike, since his adjustments are right there on the surface, but less so with Buffy, who holds everything inside.
I can deal... with Buffy being dark -- but I can't deal with the show not dealing with her darkness properly. All her abusive behaviour in season 6, and her using behaviour in season 7... no apologies, no grappling with her issues. Still avoiding, repressing, using, right to the end. And I want to like her. I'm very stuck on that issue.
We are very much on the same page here. Whereas I can see and somewhat agree with those who saw a love story happening in S7, I find it hard to get past the fact that it's not the love story that I wanted to see. I find S7 a tragedy, not an uplifting tale - the Buffy we were left with I don't feel solved her issues at all, but just had them smoothed over for her by others. (Which is why you're also unlikely to see me write a post-series Buffy/Spike pairing.)
But like you, I do want to like her... I just may have to fast-forward a bit to get to that place.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-14 07:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-15 10:28 pm (UTC)Concurrently with reading your story, I happened to be reading the clinical description of posttraumatic stress disorder and it was startling how closely the symptoms described season 6 Buffy, especially these: numbing of general responsiveness, markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities, feeling of detachment or estrangement from others, restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings), sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or a normal life span), persistent symptoms of increased arousal, irritability or outbursts of anger, difficulty concentrating.
In this description, it’s presupposed that the person has been removed from the situation, but Buffy hasn’t been removed. She’s on the front line of an ongoing war from which she can’t escape, even by dying. She’s carried unimaginable responsibility since she was a child and, now that she’s chronologically an adult, she’s way too grownup in some ways and not grownup enough in others. It’s not surprising that she wants to escape from her situation and that she holds the idea of a normal life and a normal boyfriend who can shop with her at the mall as a kind of nirvana that she can never hope to reach. She’s damaged, possibly beyond fixing.
By season 7, there’s no reason to think that she’s in a different place – if anything, it’s worse than before. Her responsibilities are greater, she’s lost her privacy, her friends are still estranged from her, she has no down time at all. I think that’s a sufficient explanation for the way that she keeps engaging with Spike and then backing away; she’s drawn to him, as always, but he has too much baggage and she can’t take on any more. Agreeing with all you’ve said about the problems of canon Buffy, I do see a way for her to reconcile with Spike eventually – after a couple years of therapy and a chance to get her fill of dating, partying and shopping for shoes. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-16 12:25 am (UTC)I can absolutely agree with all of this in theory, particularly the description of S6 as post-traumatic stress. S7 however, is a little tougher to explain, although I'd blame execution of the ideas more than the concepts - I would particularly point accusing fingers at confusing early and middle stretches of the season that failed to maintain a sense of urgency on Buffy's part - there was often a rather rather dangerous level of froofery in her behavior at times, especially in regards to the likes of her counseling job, Principal Wood, etc. Had she been played as more consistently strung out during the season, I think your reading of her character (which I do think was the one we were meant to have) would have come across more clearly. But silent misery is a difficult dramatic proposition to start with, and in this case, I don't think it worked very well - we had to read between the lines on Buffy's actions far too much for my taste in S7, and I would have given a lot to see Buffy having a slow unravel before finally blowing her top in "Get in Done." As-is, she comes across (to me) as PMSing. I blame poor plotting.
But, on the brighter note of a post-season Buffy/Spike pairing, perhaps I should have specified that I could see Buffy arriving at a better place from all this, but probably not Spike. He's the damaged one now, all too willing to give up on the idea that Buffy would ever really care about him (e.g., "I never had a chance with her anyway" from "The Girl in Question"). Intentionally or not, I think she really trained him too well in the you're-not-worthy school.
That said, I've read some post-season reunion fics that are complex enough to work for me.
Buffy
Date: 2004-09-15 01:50 am (UTC)Re: Buffy
Date: 2004-09-15 02:20 am (UTC)Re: Buffy
Date: 2004-09-15 08:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-15 01:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-09-16 05:51 am (UTC)